web analytics

UEFI Headaches Begin For Linux Users

By On October 23, 2011 · 41 Comments

A Follow-up post is available here since this post has become viral and controversial some how

linux boot denied uefi secure boot UEFI Headaches Begin For Linux Users

Linux Boot Denied Due To UEFI

As I was preparing to head out to the Ubuntu Oregon Ocelot 11.10 Release Party the other night I received a e-mail from a LoCo member in Salem, Oregon who passed on this message and felt it was an important matter to begin discussing:

Recent articles regarding UEFI and Windows 8 suggest the problem of the former blocking Linux bootloader installation is a matter that will appear at the introduction of the latter. That is not the case. It is on Win 7 machines and blocking GRUB installation now.

My friend recently got an HP s5-1110 with Win 7 installed. UEFI has prevented the installation of GRUB on this machine. I could find no way in the BIOS to disable the feature and so far, as I work my way up the HP tech support ladder, I have found no HP techs who have a clue what I’m talking about.

Just a heads up and a possible topic for discussion at the party. Of course, if anyone has more information on this issue, I’d be glad to hear from you.

The next morning I began looking into UEFI more since I had not done a lot of research but did know it was discovered around the time Windows 8 Developer was released. Anyways Ubuntu has a Community Documentation Article that discusses some workarounds for the UEFI problem and I have personally been considering how greatly the UEFI problem could affect Linux Users. I think there is some positive discussion going on and brainstorming occurring that will allow the Linux community to find reliable workarounds and solutions before UEFI becomes a standard.

Apparently Dell has had UEFI laptops for a while so it is no surprise that a new HP laptop has UEFI by default although with HP doing quite a bit of stuff in the FOSS community I figured they might have provided better support for someone trying to install Linux. Hopefully some sort of legislation will pass that requires manufacturers to list that a certain device is only capable of running a certain OS out of the box and further the whole issue seems very anti-competitive.

Update on Situation as of 4:37 PM Today:

                  Disturbingly, there were no error messages at all. Neither the Kubuntu installer nor the Boot Repair disk I subsequently tried gave any indication of failure, but the boot partition remained untouched. (I found the Boot Repair disk recommended on the Ubuntu wiki. It is a nice GUI which calls various command line utilities to produce reports on the disk and, of course, grub-install to actually install the bootloader. I must assume that it is, ultimately, grub-install which is failing silently.) The BIOS did have an entry for UEFI, but choosing it produced no response at all.

At this point I have found no firmware updates for the system nor anyone at HP who even knows what UEFI is, much less if there is a way around it.

I’m sure we all appreciate your efforts getting the word out.

Tagged with: • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
 
  • cody.smith9202

    that’s business for ya, they will try to eliminate all competition and try to keep it out, and that’s where the government has to step in.

  • superm1

    Just to be clear, whatever problems your colleague had are not because of the uEFI secure boot. That technology is not available with Windows 7, it will be introduced starting with Windows 8. Ubuntu 11.10 *does* support uEFI install from any of the 64 bit images.

    • http://www.benjaminkerensa.com/ bkerensa

      @superm1 Other people have suggested they have UEFI laptops that they were unable to install Ubuntu on as well so I don’t know what to believe at this point since my laptop does not have UEFI.

      • superm1

        @bkerensa There has been a collection of uEFI specific workarounds/fixes included with kernel 3.0 that is included in 11.10. I’m not claiming that all the bugs are fixed, but the experience should be significantly improved for anyone who was having problems with 11.04 or earlier.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ed.crumly Ed Crumly

      Google uEFI  + Windows 7, you most certainly can have troubles, even Win 7 users are having troubles if it is enabled on their newer laptops.

    • http://www.facebook.com/ed.crumly Ed Crumly

      Google uEFI  + Windows 7, you most certainly can have troubles, even Win 7 users are having troubles if it is enabled on their newer laptops.

  • Dude

    Yes, business should step in and mandate that the original PC BIOS should work forever.

     BIOSes were better in the 1980s!!!!

  • Dude

    Yes, business should step in and mandate that the original PC BIOS should work forever.

     BIOSes were better in the 1980s!!!!

  • http://twitter.com/designerferro Álvaro Ferro

    I’ve bought a HP Pavilion DV6 laptop this summer, and intended to install Ubuntu on it, but for some reason kept giving me trouble running stable. I worked up the tech ladder till I got to the Quality Rep that right on the first contact advised me to return the laptop and get my money back. I insisted on getting to engeneering to get an explanation. Some days latter, same thing. From nothing, the Quality Rep told me to return the laptop.

    I returned the laptop. Got full refund. Bought a new one from other company.

  • http://twitter.com/designerferro Álvaro Ferro

    I’ve bought a HP Pavilion DV6 laptop this summer, and intended to install Ubuntu on it, but for some reason kept giving me trouble running stable. I worked up the tech ladder till I got to the Quality Rep that right on the first contact advised me to return the laptop and get my money back. I insisted on getting to engeneering to get an explanation. Some days latter, same thing. From nothing, the Quality Rep told me to return the laptop.

    I returned the laptop. Got full refund. Bought a new one from other company.

  • 1111aether

    >I’m sure we all appreciate your efforts getting the word out.

    I and others tell you on reddit why your ‘word’ is incorrect before you updated, and yet you still continue to push this lie. You simply want to continue media whoring. What is wrong with you? UEFI is a serious threat to all of GNU/Linux and your incorrect hype isn’t helping things at all.

    • http://www.benjaminkerensa.com Benjamin Kerensa

      Media Whoring? Wow… I didn’t Reddit the post and I have little to no obligation to hunt for every post of mine that gets shared on any number of sites and answer questions or respond in a fashion that favors any person. Thanks for your two cents though!

      • 1111aether

        You responded to errors that were pointed out to you (and sourced)  though. At that point integrity would dictate that you stop spreading misinformation.

        • http://www.benjaminkerensa.com Benjamin Kerensa

          Actually I have yet to spread anything… My post was shared on Reddit and it was second hand information and you might know this if you read the post. At this point integrity would dictate you not posting under some made up alias but instead use your Reddit nick or otherwise take your hating down to the next blog you lurk at.

          • 1111aether

            If you are not spreading information, then how did you mean “I’m sure we all appreciate your efforts getting the word out.”?
            Also, not a problem, I only use different names different places for my own benefit (tracking, etc.) My reddit nick is theriverofjustice. I’d also like to add that being protective is not hateful.

            • http://www.benjaminkerensa.com Benjamin Kerensa

              In case you did not notice from the Original Post…. I indicated the information was the experience of someone I know. As such I was relating information shared with me and the person who shared it was stating “I’m sure we all appreciate your efforts getting the word out.”

              However if you look at the submitted on Reddit or any other site it was submitted to it was not I and plus self promo is not even allowed on Reddit. I have no obligation to respond to Reddit comments or any other network simply because someone decided to share my blog post there. I’m not the type who takes politely to summons or demands for response especially when those calling for such don’t even realize the content shared was third-party.

              • 1111aether

                Thank you for finally letting me through moderation. I retract calling you a coward on identi.ca last night :) Is this not you though, or did someone hack this blog just to change the comment options?
                http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ln21o/uefi_headaches_begin_for_linux_users/c2u5blv?context=3

                If you haven’t guessed by now, Here is why I think you’re doing harm: It was pointed out to you (and sourced) that the implementation of  UEFI that people are concerned  about, and the related hardware, isn’t  even available yet. Your friends issue could not be UEFI, the version that is causing all the hype, related unless they have a magical computer from the future. You chose to ignore this information contrary to the inferred sensationalist premise of this post and actually made an edit asking the misinformation be spread further. There is already so much disinformation surrounding the issue already, and that you would  knowingly add to it (and even if you prefaced with “I don’t know for sure, but someone said..” at this point, with the knowledge you have,  you would still be doing that) is disturbing. What you’re doing is the equivalent of making up the news for ratings.

                • http://www.benjaminkerensa.com Benjamin Kerensa

                  I’m unsure what problem you faced last night but I was noticing disqus was not loading for a hour although all comments are moderated by default.

                • 1111aether

                  That last comment was held  for about an hour and a half. I will keep that in mind for the future, apologies for assuming the worst last night :) Have you considered perhaps using akismet or returning to your original social network integration setup but this time also including identi.ca and diaspora? I don’t know about these things though, just a suggestion. Best of luck in getting your comments option fixed soon though  :)

                • http://www.benjaminkerensa.com Benjamin Kerensa

                  Yeah over a hour because I do have work I have to do and I sleep ;) and as to Akismet it pretty ineffective at blocking spam and the other comment system Livefyre doesnt support Diaspora or Identi.ca to my knowledge.

  • 1111aether

    >I’m sure we all appreciate your efforts getting the word out.

    I and others tell you on reddit why your ‘word’ is incorrect before you updated, and yet you still continue to push this lie. You simply want to continue media whoring. What is wrong with you? UEFI is a serious threat to all of GNU/Linux and your incorrect hype isn’t helping things at all.

    • http://benjaminkerensa.com/ Benjamin Kerensa

      Media Whoring? Wow… I didn’t Reddit the post and I have little to no obligation to hunt for every post of mine that gets shared on any number of sites and answer questions or respond in a fashion that favors any person. Thanks for your two cents though!

      • 1111aether

        You responded to errors that were pointed out to you (and sourced)  though. At that point integrity would dictate that you stop spreading misinformation.

        • http://benjaminkerensa.com/ Benjamin Kerensa

          Actually I have yet to spread anything… My post was shared on Reddit and it was second hand information and you might know this if you read the post. At this point integrity would dictate you not posting under some made up alias but instead use your Reddit nick or otherwise take your hating down to the next blog you lurk at.

          • 1111aether

            If you are not spreading information, then how did you mean “I’m sure we all appreciate your efforts getting the word out.”?
            Also, not a problem, I only use different names different places for my own benefit (tracking, etc.) My reddit nick is theriverofjustice. I’d also like to add that being protective is not hateful.

            • http://benjaminkerensa.com/ Benjamin Kerensa

              In case you did not notice from the Original Post…. I indicated the information was the experience of someone I know. As such I was relating information shared with me and the person who shared it was stating “I’m sure we all appreciate your efforts getting the word out.”

              However if you look at the submitted on Reddit or any other site it was submitted to it was not I and plus self promo is not even allowed on Reddit. I have no obligation to respond to Reddit comments or any other network simply because someone decided to share my blog post there. I’m not the type who takes politely to summons or demands for response especially when those calling for such don’t even realize the content shared was third-party.

              • 1111aether

                Thank you for finally letting me through moderation. I retract calling you a coward on identi.ca last night :) Is this not you though, or did someone hack this blog just to change the comment options?
                http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ln21o/uefi_headaches_begin_for_linux_users/c2u5blv?context=3

                If you haven’t guessed by now, Here is why I think you’re doing harm: It was pointed out to you (and sourced) that the implementation of  UEFI that people are concerned  about, and the related hardware, isn’t  even available yet. Your friends issue could not be UEFI, the version that is causing all the hype, related unless they have a magical computer from the future. You chose to ignore this information contrary to the inferred sensationalist premise of this post and actually made an edit asking the misinformation be spread further. There is already so much disinformation surrounding the issue already, and that you would  knowingly add to it (and even if you prefaced with “I don’t know for sure, but someone said..” at this point, with the knowledge you have,  you would still be doing that) is disturbing. What you’re doing is the equivalent of making up the news for ratings.

                • http://benjaminkerensa.com/ Benjamin Kerensa

                  I’m unsure what problem you faced last night but I was noticing disqus was not loading for a hour although all comments are moderated by default.

                • 1111aether

                  That last comment was held  for about an hour and a half. I will keep that in mind for the future, apologies for assuming the worst last night :) Have you considered perhaps using akismet or returning to your original social network integration setup but this time also including identi.ca and diaspora? I don’t know about these things though, just a suggestion. Best of luck in getting your comments option fixed soon though  :)

                • http://benjaminkerensa.com/ Benjamin Kerensa

                  Yeah over a hour because I do have work I have to do and I sleep ;) and as to Akismet it pretty ineffective at blocking spam and the other comment system Livefyre doesnt support Diaspora or Identi.ca to my knowledge.

  • dflukey

    @johnsto Windows 7 doesn’t support that kind of “secure boot”, so if that was the case it wouldn’t boot either

  • dflukey

    @johnsto Actually, just look at the reddit comments: http://t.co/GePf6Ggn I file this under source/blogger not knowing WTF

  • Me

    Sounds like your friend is able to boot a Linux cd, in which case while the system may support uefi it doesn’t have secure boot enabled. If it did then booting from cd wouldn’t work. Also from my reading of the uefi spec secure boot involves a handshake between the system rom and bootloader, win7 wouldn’t support this. As such I’m skeptical of this claim and until concrete evidence of secure boot shows up I’m relegating this to “case of mistaken identity bin”

  • Me

    Sounds like your friend is able to boot a Linux cd, in which case while the system may support uefi it doesn’t have secure boot enabled. If it did then booting from cd wouldn’t work. Also from my reading of the uefi spec secure boot involves a handshake between the system rom and bootloader, win7 wouldn’t support this. As such I’m skeptical of this claim and until concrete evidence of secure boot shows up I’m relegating this to “case of mistaken identity bin”

  • Cnureddy B

    Grub is not known to work well with EFI systems. I would recommend ELILO boot loader for  such UEFI systems.

  • Cnureddy B

    Grub is not known to work well with EFI systems. I would recommend ELILO boot loader for  such UEFI systems.

  • Guest2009

    Haha, so it was not the fault of UEFI? Poor Linux zealots going mad ><

    • Anonymous

      it wasn’t the fault of Secure Boot, which most people knew as soon as they read it was Windows 7 on the disk. It is an issue with the developing support for UEFI and a bug should be filed and then it will be fixed. We suspect that the 64 bit ISO would just work and the user was just trying 32 bit disks.

  • Guest2009

    Haha, so it was not the fault of UEFI? Poor Linux zealots going mad ><

    • AlanBell

      it wasn’t the fault of Secure Boot, which most people knew as soon as they read it was Windows 7 on the disk. It is an issue with the developing support for UEFI and a bug should be filed and then it will be fixed. We suspect that the 64 bit ISO would just work and the user was just trying 32 bit disks.

  • JamesEsposito

    Thanks for this I was thinking about buying a new HP laptop very soon. I intend to Install Ubuntu 11.10 on it a soon as I get it home. Now I know NOT to go near HP. I need to find a Linux friendly lappy. The search is on ;) .